Initial Plan for Cemtery Structure

[Fergus_Keyes]

Here is a quick sketch of what we might want to consider, based on our discussion at our last Restoration meeting. (It may be a little hard to see).

At this point it is only in the preliminary concept stage since we do not have permission from the Church yet to install such a structure; and, of course, we do not have a cost estimate at this point.

The proportions are directly related to research done about the Celtic Cross. Of course, the size could change depending on the space available in the cemetery. But, of course, if we, for example made the main walls longer then the arm walls would also change in length etc?.

As you can see, the ends of all the walls are open to allow someone to walk around the structure and view the broken tombstones that we would imbed likely in both sides of the various walls. We have also added a bench in the middle?.

As I say, it is just a starting point ??.

[Fergus_Keyes]

Here is a quick sketch of what we might want to consider, based on our discussion at our last Restoration meeting. (It may be a little hard to see).

At this point it is only in the preliminary concept stage since we do not have permission from the Church yet to install such a structure; and, of course, we do not have a cost estimate at this point.

The proportions are directly related to research done about the Celtic Cross. Of course, the size could change depending on the space available in the cemetery. But, of course, if we, for example made the main walls longer then the arm walls would also change in length etc?.

As you can see, the ends of all the walls are open to allow someone to walk around the structure and view the broken tombstones that we would imbed likely in both sides of the various walls. We have also added a bench in the middle?.

As I say, it is just a starting point ??.

[Murray_Quinn]

Hi to Le Whole Crew,
     First , lemme say it was indeed a pleasure meeting all of you at the last meeting.

     A couple of questions re Le Plan. I sees ya?ve come up with the possibility of a wall of ?local fieldstone? as an alternative to the ?old brick? that was mentioned at the meeting. Any particular reason for this? (and that?s not a complaint)  - i.e. - cheaper to collect free stone than buying bricks??? Is the present thinking that it might be easier embedding the tombstones into fieldstone than in brick?
     
     At the meeting, I believe I mentioned that it might be a little difficult to embed flat-surfaced tombstones into a curved wall of bricks. I am now also wondering if that might prove to be even a little more awkward, or difficult, if the tombstones are to be mounted on both faces of the wall, especially if the walls are curved. Whether the wall is of 6? stone, or 4? brick, will it not be a bit tricky embedding tombstones on both sides of the wall, particularly if some of these broken tombstones are themselves 2? to 4? or even 6? thick? It would seem to me that, depending on the thicknesses of the tombstones, there may be instances where you will actually not be able to put them back-to-back into the wall if the wall isn?t thick enough. - i.e.- you may wind up with having to settle for some blank spaces on one side of the wall or the other simply because there may be enough thickness to the wall to accommodate what is proposed ? especially if brick were used. If I recall, standard brick is only about 4? across. One of the reasons I?m mentioning this, is that I assume that when we embed these tombstones in the wall, we won?t be wanting any edges protruding beyond the face of the wall, making it susceptible to the lunatic fringe picking or prying them out of the wall ?just for the fun of it?, or for souvenirs so-to-speak.

     Also, I remember mentioning the possibility of maybe cheating a little on the four curved segmented sections of the wall such that instead of each section being an actual quarter curve, maybe ?each of those curved sections? could be made up of ?two slightly bent straight sections? which might make it, not only easier to mount the tombstones in it, but possibly easier to build. I know having ?two straight sections? instead for ?each quarter curve? may be considered cheating re the circular portion on a Celtic Cross, but I just thought that maybe the trade-off between tradition and a little creativity might be acceptable if it allows us to more easily construct this monument.

And please note - all polite criticisms & curses accepted in the same good humour our ancestors were noted for ? well, at least most of them.  

Regards, - Murray Quinn

[Murray_Quinn]

Hi to Le Whole Crew,
     First , lemme say it was indeed a pleasure meeting all of you at the last meeting.

     A couple of questions re Le Plan. I sees ya?ve come up with the possibility of a wall of ?local fieldstone? as an alternative to the ?old brick? that was mentioned at the meeting. Any particular reason for this? (and that?s not a complaint)  - i.e. - cheaper to collect free stone than buying bricks??? Is the present thinking that it might be easier embedding the tombstones into fieldstone than in brick?
     
     At the meeting, I believe I mentioned that it might be a little difficult to embed flat-surfaced tombstones into a curved wall of bricks. I am now also wondering if that might prove to be even a little more awkward, or difficult, if the tombstones are to be mounted on both faces of the wall, especially if the walls are curved. Whether the wall is of 6? stone, or 4? brick, will it not be a bit tricky embedding tombstones on both sides of the wall, particularly if some of these broken tombstones are themselves 2? to 4? or even 6? thick? It would seem to me that, depending on the thicknesses of the tombstones, there may be instances where you will actually not be able to put them back-to-back into the wall if the wall isn?t thick enough. - i.e.- you may wind up with having to settle for some blank spaces on one side of the wall or the other simply because there may be enough thickness to the wall to accommodate what is proposed ? especially if brick were used. If I recall, standard brick is only about 4? across. One of the reasons I?m mentioning this, is that I assume that when we embed these tombstones in the wall, we won?t be wanting any edges protruding beyond the face of the wall, making it susceptible to the lunatic fringe picking or prying them out of the wall ?just for the fun of it?, or for souvenirs so-to-speak.

     Also, I remember mentioning the possibility of maybe cheating a little on the four curved segmented sections of the wall such that instead of each section being an actual quarter curve, maybe ?each of those curved sections? could be made up of ?two slightly bent straight sections? which might make it, not only easier to mount the tombstones in it, but possibly easier to build. I know having ?two straight sections? instead for ?each quarter curve? may be considered cheating re the circular portion on a Celtic Cross, but I just thought that maybe the trade-off between tradition and a little creativity might be acceptable if it allows us to more easily construct this monument.

And please note - all polite criticisms & curses accepted in the same good humour our ancestors were noted for ? well, at least most of them.  

Regards, - Murray Quinn

[jeff.legault]

As I look at the drawing and read Murray's posting, I wonder if we only intended to embed the broken markers in the straight sections of the cross and save the curved sections to engrave the names of those without markers? Or were we looking at another monument to engrave the names? This could cost a lot more than our intial target of $25,000 but that should not necessarily be a limiting factor.

We would likely require an engineer and maybe even an architech to gain approval by the municipality for conformance to the building code to ensure it's safe and legal but I am not familiar with the requirements in that region.

I was also thinking about how well received this monument will be by the existing Francophone community in the area. I'm a little bit biased from my mixed French-Irish culture but I wonder if there are any French settlers in the cemetery that would also be without markers? My French ancestoirs also lived the Laurentians by coincidence. It could help us to reach a common goal to remember ALL the ancestors of St. Columban and perhaps gain better financial backing.

Like Murray these are just friendly ideas for discussion.

[jeff.legault]

As I look at the drawing and read Murray's posting, I wonder if we only intended to embed the broken markers in the straight sections of the cross and save the curved sections to engrave the names of those without markers? Or were we looking at another monument to engrave the names? This could cost a lot more than our intial target of $25,000 but that should not necessarily be a limiting factor.

We would likely require an engineer and maybe even an architech to gain approval by the municipality for conformance to the building code to ensure it's safe and legal but I am not familiar with the requirements in that region.

I was also thinking about how well received this monument will be by the existing Francophone community in the area. I'm a little bit biased from my mixed French-Irish culture but I wonder if there are any French settlers in the cemetery that would also be without markers? My French ancestoirs also lived the Laurentians by coincidence. It could help us to reach a common goal to remember ALL the ancestors of St. Columban and perhaps gain better financial backing.

Like Murray these are just friendly ideas for discussion.

[Fergus_Keyes]

Terrific ideas and comments from both Murray & Jeff.

It is only by everyone offering their view, that we will be able to arrive at the best way to reach our common objective of honouring all the early St. Columban settlers....

What is the expression? - a whole lot of heads are better than one.... (or something like that...)

So if anyone has anything at all to add, please do post your comments here over the next few days....

Thanks    

[Fergus_Keyes]

Terrific ideas and comments from both Murray & Jeff.

It is only by everyone offering their view, that we will be able to arrive at the best way to reach our common objective of honouring all the early St. Columban settlers....

What is the expression? - a whole lot of heads are better than one.... (or something like that...)

So if anyone has anything at all to add, please do post your comments here over the next few days....

Thanks    

[kneil]

While I'm not totally convinced that a Celtic Cross is the way to go, for reasons previously mentioned, I think that the design by Fergus' nephew does look good. I calculate that we would require approx. 125 lin. ft. of wall to accomodate the 30 broken headstones and 18 granite plaques, and the design easily does that.


The choice of materials, whether it be brick, stone or something else, the color and texture, should be made to blend in with the area. All Murray's comments ie. flat panels in curved walls, wall thickness etc. are valid. As the project  gets bigger and more technical it is certain that we will need an engineer to finalize and sign off on the design. As for the cost it is going to be considerably more than that of a straight wall.

The question is do we have enough space to construct it without encroaching on the existiing graves? Do we know for certain that there are no unmarked graves in that area? I hate the thought of unearthing one of our ancestor's remains.

Having said all that, it is certain that properly done this will be a very interestng  monument that would attract a lot of attention to St. Columban

Jeff's comments re the French settlers have some merit. Perhaps Claude can find out if there is a like minded local French group with whom we can join forces. Obviously to research and collect all the data would be an enormous task. Also there is the question of added costs.

Speaking of costs, I think we should start looking at ways to raise money. At the last meeting not much was said. I believe that Audrey was going to speak with Ned re getting some sponsors for the January show. Is there any progress there?
I think that these types of events have to be planned well in advance, as we know tempus fugit.
Another possibility would be to sell relevant items on line ( our web site, e-bay) for example baseball caps, t shirts, sweatshirts. etc. Any one out there got  contacts for these items? Also Irish records ( Audrey's son's band), books and  Kelley's cemetery research, in book form or CD.
At the  meeting in January Kelley started to mention a picnic in St. Columban, but it got lost in the shuffle. Can we turn that idea into a money making event?

Ideas, comments anyone?

Cheers  Ken

[kneil]

While I'm not totally convinced that a Celtic Cross is the way to go, for reasons previously mentioned, I think that the design by Fergus' nephew does look good. I calculate that we would require approx. 125 lin. ft. of wall to accomodate the 30 broken headstones and 18 granite plaques, and the design easily does that.


The choice of materials, whether it be brick, stone or something else, the color and texture, should be made to blend in with the area. All Murray's comments ie. flat panels in curved walls, wall thickness etc. are valid. As the project  gets bigger and more technical it is certain that we will need an engineer to finalize and sign off on the design. As for the cost it is going to be considerably more than that of a straight wall.

The question is do we have enough space to construct it without encroaching on the existiing graves? Do we know for certain that there are no unmarked graves in that area? I hate the thought of unearthing one of our ancestor's remains.

Having said all that, it is certain that properly done this will be a very interestng  monument that would attract a lot of attention to St. Columban

Jeff's comments re the French settlers have some merit. Perhaps Claude can find out if there is a like minded local French group with whom we can join forces. Obviously to research and collect all the data would be an enormous task. Also there is the question of added costs.

Speaking of costs, I think we should start looking at ways to raise money. At the last meeting not much was said. I believe that Audrey was going to speak with Ned re getting some sponsors for the January show. Is there any progress there?
I think that these types of events have to be planned well in advance, as we know tempus fugit.
Another possibility would be to sell relevant items on line ( our web site, e-bay) for example baseball caps, t shirts, sweatshirts. etc. Any one out there got  contacts for these items? Also Irish records ( Audrey's son's band), books and  Kelley's cemetery research, in book form or CD.
At the  meeting in January Kelley started to mention a picnic in St. Columban, but it got lost in the shuffle. Can we turn that idea into a money making event?

Ideas, comments anyone?

Cheers  Ken

[Fergus_Keyes]

Ken, your comments are all very valid and certainly these are the things that we have to decide in agreement with Le Fabrique, before we start doing anything. At this stage, of donations, it will be at least a year or two before we can start any construction.

As far as the Fundraiser event is concerned, I had a conversation with Audrey O?Rourke this week about this very project. She would certainly like to have a large benefit event scheduled in January 2007 involving a musical Irish story and dancing etc. I have also communicated with Ned Eustache who can likely get us the hall at Loyola and also with Kay Dunn who is involved with the Irish dance community. At this point Ned; Kay; Audrey and Kelley have all agreed to an initial meeting specifically about this event sometime in June.

But like you say, it will take some high level of organization for an event of this kind - so if anyone in our group wants to be involved in the organizing committee, please let me know.  We will certainly need a Chairperson like Audrey, or someone else, to pull it all together. At this point, I will not likely have the time to direct this event, but would certainly be willing to donate some time to the effort as a committee member.

The other things that you mention like t-shirts; printing of a book; and a Back to St. Columban picnic are also great ideas but, once again, we need some other members of our group to investigate these possibilities ? their costs etc.

So we have plenty of good ideas and lots of things that we can do ? we just need a few more active members in our group that are willing and able to handle some of these projects?

If any of our members are interested in working on any of these efforts ? The Cemetery Restoration; The big 2007 event; Working on other fundraising ideas etc.- please just drop me an e-mail.  ? http://fergus@stcolumban-irish.com

I know that it sounds a little official setting up various committees etc. within our St. Columban Irish group, but this whole thing has taken of a life of it's own - and, I am not sure of any other way to get the ball rolling - with so many great ideas to investigate.

Take Care everyone

Fergus  

[Fergus_Keyes]

Ken, your comments are all very valid and certainly these are the things that we have to decide in agreement with Le Fabrique, before we start doing anything. At this stage, of donations, it will be at least a year or two before we can start any construction.

As far as the Fundraiser event is concerned, I had a conversation with Audrey O?Rourke this week about this very project. She would certainly like to have a large benefit event scheduled in January 2007 involving a musical Irish story and dancing etc. I have also communicated with Ned Eustache who can likely get us the hall at Loyola and also with Kay Dunn who is involved with the Irish dance community. At this point Ned; Kay; Audrey and Kelley have all agreed to an initial meeting specifically about this event sometime in June.

But like you say, it will take some high level of organization for an event of this kind - so if anyone in our group wants to be involved in the organizing committee, please let me know.  We will certainly need a Chairperson like Audrey, or someone else, to pull it all together. At this point, I will not likely have the time to direct this event, but would certainly be willing to donate some time to the effort as a committee member.

The other things that you mention like t-shirts; printing of a book; and a Back to St. Columban picnic are also great ideas but, once again, we need some other members of our group to investigate these possibilities ? their costs etc.

So we have plenty of good ideas and lots of things that we can do ? we just need a few more active members in our group that are willing and able to handle some of these projects?

If any of our members are interested in working on any of these efforts ? The Cemetery Restoration; The big 2007 event; Working on other fundraising ideas etc.- please just drop me an e-mail.  ? http://fergus@stcolumban-irish.com

I know that it sounds a little official setting up various committees etc. within our St. Columban Irish group, but this whole thing has taken of a life of it's own - and, I am not sure of any other way to get the ball rolling - with so many great ideas to investigate.

Take Care everyone

Fergus  

[Fergus_Keyes]

As an update concerning the Cemtery Restoration plan, here is a quick e-mail from Anne McLaughlin. As you know, Anne & Claude are working with the Fabrique in St. Columban to get permissio to do whatever we plan to do....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I spoke with Mrs Daoust today, the President of the "Fabrique" (St. Columban Parish Council). Firstly, we (Restoration Committee) ONLY need the approval of the Parish Council to carry out work in the Cemetery - we do not have to communicate with the Bishop's office in St.Jerome.

In addition, I suggested that some (4 or more if wanted) Restoration Cttee members might attend the next Parish meeting to review the Draft of the Restoration Cttee's ideas on a Monument to integrate the broken Tomb Stones, and other displays to honour our ancestors. Ideally this would be carried out in the Cemetery itself. Mrs Daoust liked that approach.

The next meeting of the "Fabrique"  (St.Columban Parish Council) is planned for June 20th, 7pm - should this date need to be cancelled, I am to check with her on June 16 or 17 for possible changes, and I will advise you of the final date.

Hopefully, this information should help us orient our proposed plans.

Thanks,

Anne (McLaughlin)

[Fergus_Keyes]

As an update concerning the Cemtery Restoration plan, here is a quick e-mail from Anne McLaughlin. As you know, Anne & Claude are working with the Fabrique in St. Columban to get permissio to do whatever we plan to do....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I spoke with Mrs Daoust today, the President of the "Fabrique" (St. Columban Parish Council). Firstly, we (Restoration Committee) ONLY need the approval of the Parish Council to carry out work in the Cemetery - we do not have to communicate with the Bishop's office in St.Jerome.

In addition, I suggested that some (4 or more if wanted) Restoration Cttee members might attend the next Parish meeting to review the Draft of the Restoration Cttee's ideas on a Monument to integrate the broken Tomb Stones, and other displays to honour our ancestors. Ideally this would be carried out in the Cemetery itself. Mrs Daoust liked that approach.

The next meeting of the "Fabrique"  (St.Columban Parish Council) is planned for June 20th, 7pm - should this date need to be cancelled, I am to check with her on June 16 or 17 for possible changes, and I will advise you of the final date.

Hopefully, this information should help us orient our proposed plans.

Thanks,

Anne (McLaughlin)